Wow, thank you for the enlightening insight! I’m just starting out my business and have been struggling with this very topic, how much should I really shoot for free? I had read John’s post and felt that yes, shooting for free isn’t a way to make a living, but I agree more with your post in the fact that sometimes shooting for free will help give you a “leg-up”. I’ve had several shoots that I’ve done for free or a discounted rate that have been great referrals, book pieces and have brought me new clients. Sometimes shooting for free can be more fun when you know it’s for a good cause or a family in need.

Thanks for your opinion!

This is the BEST article I’ve EVER seen written on pricing. In most areas of my life, I’m a big fan of common sense and looking past the next five minutes. You really nailed it IMO. People do need to look at the larger picture. There’s different ways of doing everything, and using others for access to beef up your presentation is very, very smart. There are few things in life that are absoultes (always/never). Have a goal or endgame in mind, and find creative ways to reach it.

Seriously, well said and well done.

Don
I saw that post the other day (and commented there too) and wondered about the message there–he seemed to contradict himself–ie–he started out by implying “don’t do it” and then suggested keeping the dialogue open; but–send along a proposal that confirms the list price??? Having read his book and articles I thought his blog post might have gone in the direction you took yours today (and how I responded there)–ie–as a new kid on the block I am always approached to do it “free/cheap for portfolio…”.but have to “figure it out…”

Its a constant struggle but I have 30 years in another biz world; have read the books; talked to the photogs–and, the take away for me was find the “win-win”–something I did in business for 30 years. so, in a few weeks I will shoot a big high school party/event –will do so discounted to “normal rates” BUT “negotiated a win-win”…I insisted on a marketing move so as to get my work in front of the eyeballs of over 100 seniors and soon to be seniors; the eyeballs of theirs parents; the event is at a new conference facility and I meet next week with the director; will be one of the first photogs to work the joint; one of the host parents is a conference planner for a university here–meet with her next week too

Admittedly it is an ongoing struggle to craft these arrangements and not all will work out–and, sometimes I have to say no too. But, in this post (and I think Harrington book too) the case can be made that it’s not a black and white issue–as I have commented previously –we need to be problem solvers

thanks again for another interesting read

Right on the mark. I also read Harrington’s article, and came away with many of the same feelings. As someone once said, “Never say never.” You’ll end up eating your words.

Yet another great discussion.

I think the key sentence in the article that he/she wasn’t expected to shoot for free. That is the notion that everyone still understands the value of photography despite the details of a specific setup.

In general though, as long as ideally both sides, and at a minimum the photographer can articulate the actual trade, then it’s much more above board. And when I say articulate, I don’t think the generic ‘I’m building my portfolio’ is good enough. It needs to be more specific why this gig, this client, this image will further your path to paid work. That addresses the big fear that is out there that some folks are just reckless and spoil the party.

And then there is the there is the proportionality. If maybe about 10% of a given market is in trade, then it’s nothing more than a discount or occasional freebe everyone enjoys. Once a significant portion of a market is in trade, then the perception will set in that there will always be someone around good enough that will do trade, and then the market is no longer willing to trade.

Jan

Some of the best shots in my book were taken on “free” assignments for causes and organizations I believe in, and some of the “free” websites I’ve built have resulted in thousands of dollars of work for other clients who saw the “free” site I created and wanted me to build their sites as well.

But.

Each and every one of those “free” clients were people/organizations that I approached first because I either believed in what they were doing or I could see the benefit for me in the long run of doing the work at no charge. If a potential client comes to me and says “we can’t pay you, but it’ll be good exposure”, I let them keep walking, because that’s a big warning sign that they’re not really interested in providing “good exposure” for me, they just don’t want to pay anyone for the job.

I like John…… I really do. He has a lot of great information for photographers, particularly those doing commercial and editorial work.

Having said that, John is big time anal when it comes to tripping the shutter without dollars crossing his palm. He leaves me with the impression that he wouldn’t shoot his own kids unless somebody paid him. That also makes me feel like he can’t have any fun with photography. That’s too bad.

There are lots of B2C photographers who give away work. His points are more well taken with B2B work. Part of the equation should be, as you point out here, the difference between asking for access and being asked to shoot for free.

Some more examples of using free to market:

Wedding shooters giving images away to venues – canvas prints, albums, etc. in order to land on the recommended list.

Being the “Official Photographer” for the symphony, ballet, theater, etc. in order to place images in public places that you wouldn’t be able to buy your way into.

Having a facebook day at a local coffee shop to benefit a charity of your choosing.

Some of the things you do yield new clients, others you might do just to be a good citizen. Yeah, charities have budgets and their employees are paid, but if it’s one I want to help I may be able to do more good by providing my services than by giving a cash gift. That’s my choice. I’ll contact the charity and offer my services. If a charity contacts me though, I may choose not to donate, but ask to be paid for my work. Again, my choice.

Bravo!

You’ve done a beautiful job of articulating something important: there’s a big difference between working for nothing and working, in your excellent phrase, for something other than money.

You get it, and Harrington doesn’t. Hope he reads your post!

Great, great post.

Again well done!

Pricing can either be the bane for the professional photographer, or it can be the catalyst to change and transformation, the change being the way we honor the value we provide our clients. I believe if we had these type of conversations more often more visual artists (newbies) as well as seasoned pros would begin to shift the way marketplace views the contribution we provide.

At the end of the day it’s all about value (and I’m not speaking about cut rates) our clients expect it, we provide it and we should never be ashamed or reserved in talking about it with them and each other.

Rodney

Great post. The family wedding quip and 15% discount made me LOL.

[...] wrote this because I read John Harrington's post on the perils of working for free and then I read Don Giannatti's rejoinder to John's post and then Don and I went back and forth a few times in semi-private and I thought, [...]

[...] Photos for Free — and Why They’re Bogus”) that I refer to in my current LE piece (“What is the Difference Between Shooting for Free and Shooting for Me?”) simply wrong. There ARE times and places where you have to parlay your work and find people to [...]

Don,

Excellent points. If I “never” shoot for free, then I won’t do personal projects, explore new markets, support a cause I believe in or grow my style. Common sense has to rule in the end.

I think the best differentiation is Who Wants What. If a client initiates the job and wants free photos, then “No”. If it’s something I conjure up, then it’s on my dime.

– Ron

All I can say is I’m so grateful that Jimmy Allen was willing to work for free. He volunteers with Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep, and the healing gift he gave to my wife and I is of immensurable value. I’ve always had a love for photography but the experience has motivated me to develop my skills to the fullest. I hope to help another family because of how invaluable the help we received was. Going to have to give it enough time so I can actually walk into the hospital again though. I keep realizing I can see the window of the room my wife stayed in when ever I park. I just end up staring at it from the parking lot.

http://jimmyallenphotography.com/
http://www.nowilaymedowntosleep.org/

Awesome article! i love this. Thank you for sharing it. Very Important notes

[...] have made my feelings known on the ‘working for free’ thing on several posts. It isn’t for ‘free’ if value is gained… and if it can be a win-win… [...]

[...] References: 7 Reasons Why Social Media Aint Working for Your Photography Business What is the Difference Between Shooting for Free and Shooting for Me? [...]

[...] 7 Reasons Why Social Media Ain’t Working for Your Photography Business What is the Difference Between Shooting for Free and Shooting for Me? [...]

[...] There are times when the gift of photography, the goodwill of images, the ability to help a friend who can in turn then help you is too compelling. Just be sure you know what you are doing and what will come of it. [...]