Well… maybe it is the change of weather. Maybe it is simply a function of the internet allowing a diverse level of interaction. The great democratization of opinion and content.
I dunno. But it seems designed to actually create a more divisive institution. And we know what happens when we get divided… we become more weak than strong. As they say, “we hang together or we hang separately”. Not a pretty thought, but actually becoming a possibility.
I guess there are still folks who believe that the running down of someone else somehow elevates themselves. While the empirical evidence runs to the contrary, the tendency seems to be as strong as ever. Let me ask you this: How does humiliating someone else give you more credibility? I mean really… not the temporary sound of applause from the temporary ‘fans’ of any kind of cat-fight. When you attack another photographer do you see a bounce in your business? Do you? If so, please let us all now in the comments.
In my experience it does not bring anything positive to anyone who chooses the route of ‘hater’…
In the ‘old days’ there was always a brick wall of superiority thrown up by the ‘Commercial’ shooters toward their counterparts in the ‘Consumer’ photographers. “Wedding Photographer” was some sort of derogatory term in some commercial circles. Sad. I sat with a lot of photographers who would simply indicate that there was nothing of value in being a wedding photographer. Recently, wedding photographers have had their opportunity to laugh back… and many of the ‘commercial’ shooters who hated wedding photographers have become pretty successful wedding photographers. And some ‘consumer’ photographers have crossed successfully into the ranks of ‘commercial’.
And I don’t hear those kind of discussions these days. There are different paths and decisions that are made in both types, but there seems to be a more common respect for the craft.
Enter them dang interwebs (still think they are a fad, Michael) and the new platforms of balkanization, the tearing apart of a strong group to form smaller, less powerful groups.
There are so many wonderful places to discuss, learn and focus on photography out there. Whether you are a wedding, fine art, commercial, editorial, landscape or portrait photographer, there are great and inspirational websites to visit. Simply, it is an unprecedented time in photography… educational sources abound, gear is cheap, bar to entry is lower.
The demands for success never higher. Ever.
And then we start to tear ourselves new ones. We start the hating. “We are ‘______’ shooters, and all else suck.” “Natural light is ‘TRUE’ photography.” “Film is back… so long digital squirrels.” “Photoshop ruins Photography”. “In order to shoot a wedding one must have a camera like mine, and keep it in a Pelican Case…” The absurdity of those statements are laughable… and unfortunately all too common.
And if that is not enough, we now have photographers attacking other photographers by name. To what end does it lead? What is gained?
Those of you who know much about me know I love jazz. I don’t give a damn whether you do or not. You may like Rap – which I can not listen to for more than 21.567 seconds (I know, I checked). I don’t care if you do. I really don’t. I hope you enjoy the music you listen to. Even banjo music. Even B Spears. I don’t care.
So if I come out and say: “Britney Spears sounds like two mating cats who just discovered they hate each other – in the middle of the mating act”… what does that do for my love of jazz? While I may sound more like Simon than Paula, will you somehow think more of jazz now? Does my love of jazz feel better now that I have that off my chest? Does that further the conversation on music? Or does it kill any possible interaction between me and BSpears folks on the merits of their, and my, favorite music?
I have always found that being comfortable with myself meant that it was OK for others to be comfortable with their choices as well. It’s fine with me if you listen to rap. I don’t care if you like the Huffington Post, I could care less if you love reading romance novels. I just don’t care.
We saw it recently with the YouTube video of the idiot JJB taking a photographer to task for… I don’t know, the fool simply ranted on about “1Series” and “Pelican Cases” and all the other ‘non-related to the case’ crap that belittled the photographer and elevated the “Stupid Gearhead” mentality to celebrity status. (Before you go toward a “well, I thought we weren’t sposed to hate nobody crap… I will ALWAYS stand with a photographer being attacked unfairly. I will ALWAYS work to understand the photographers side, and I will always try to help them though the challenge instead of eagerly throwing them under the bus in an attempt to build my self worth.) I will not stand quiet when a photographer decides to go all ballistic against other photographers. That is a silly and destructive choice and I will stand with the group.
I saw a very big name wedding photographer ($10K or so) taking great glee in the sad photographer being humiliated and ruined on national television. Oooh… was she a threat to him and other $10K shooters? And was her demise a line item gain for them?
Now we see photographers ranting about people’s religion, and telling them to shut up about their beliefs. And “I’ve seen many of your images. I’d pay 20 cents for them, and not a penny more. That’s how bad some of you suck. Sorry.“.. really opens the dialogue, eh?
I wrote a rebuttal to this type of elitist, divisionalist crap, and one of the commenters took the opportunity to call a wedding photographer out by name and refer to him as a conman. A personal one-on-one attack that has been made public. And, well, I don’t understand the need to do that.
The ‘famous’ blogger photographers are attacked by other photographers for being famous. What? Fame is not something you buy, it is something that is conferred upon you. Conferred by the ones making you famous. A few photographer-bloggers have had tremendous success in gathering a pretty substantial audience. That is to be applauded, not derided. If they are providing information that other people want to read, then need be no other reason than that for their success.
I am reading now that photographers who do these blogs are just trying to milk another dollar from their work. As if that was a bad thing. Seriously, do you not see the incredible straw-man in this argument? From framing to marking up expenses, every photographer and business person I know seeks to maximize their assets. And knowing this stuff, and knowing how to write about it to make it interesting and educational as well is an asset. “Milking a dollar” has such a terribly negative connotation. Maximizing assets sounds better.. so why do photographers choose the negative choice when discussing other photographers? Why?
I suppose that selling photographs that were taken sometime previous for use would be considered “Milking the dollars” out of the images. Some other people call it Stock. And making copies of an image, several copies of an image for God’s sake, and selling them is also “Milking the Dollar”? Or is it print sales?
Seriously, folks… seriously.
From successful sites with fun BTS videos, to blogs on business, there are people who are unhappy with them. And I am left to wonder why? What does someone’s success or failure have to do with me. Or you?
Given the choice, I root for success. For my friends, for my competitors, for students, for strangers… Success is a wonderful thing. When I see a business closing… whether it is a small book store, a pizzaria or a photography studio, I know there was tremendous sadness there. Dreams lost, savings spent, personal tragedy that is palpable. I don’t feel glee, a sense of ‘gotcha’ or superior because I am still in business. I hope you feel that way too.
Rooting for failure seems so, well, petty. Small.
I love photography. Love it. Spent most of my life involved with photography. As a photographer doing it, as a Creative Director hiring it, as a designer shooting it, and as a writer writing about it. I don’t have any desire to do anything else, really. I love looking at photographs, and spend hours doing it. There are some photographers I love and some I don’t… but I look at it all.
So today’s rant ends up with a couple of questions for you:
1. When you hoist that flag of hate and humiliation, what value has been created for your life?
2. Telling everyone that will listen that so-and-so is a real schmuck, and has no value other than to ‘screw’ the stupid legions of fans they have… what does that really mean? To me, that is… what does that mean to me?
Look… bottom line. If you don’t see any value in blogging. Don’t blog.
If you think that some photographer somewhere is “milking the dollar” don’t buy. (Believe me, if the guy is a schmuck and ripping people off, the ripped off will take care of it on their own. It’s called the free market. I believe people are smart enough to make the right choices most of the time and don’t really need to be ‘protected’ by someone for whom the motivations themselves are questionable… ya know.)
If you don’t think that a workshop makes sense for you, don’t go?
If you think that prices are too low, price yourself where you want to be. Fight for the market.
If you are bothered by the success of another, take an audit of why that is, and work on it.
Glass houses make terrible shooting ranges…
And worse – it makes us more vulnerable to outside attack. It allows us to be manipulated and coerced by tribe. We end up with trade associations fighting other trade associations… to the glee of those who can benefit from that divisiveness. And that, as they say, sucks.
Enough for a Tuesday morning…
Follow me on Twitter. Check out my Workshops page (oh, yeah… I do workshops, so I guess that makes me a schmuck too… jeez, I forgot about that), if you are seeking to do a workshop this year.
Couldn’t agree more with the general sentiment, and I have a nagging feeling I know of another recent forum thread which may have sparked off your little rant. Needless to say I’m keeping a close eye on the snapper in question.
All the best,
Tom
It’s not just photography. There’s something in human nature that breeds this sort of thinking. I find it in my own thinking sometimes and, when I catch it, I try to figure out why. Sometimes the criticism is spot on and other times…….
Without naming names you’ve still leveled criticism, and I think it’s well deserved. In the case of the photographer who was publicly castigated by JJB there were all kinds of things she could have been taken to task for (bad attitude for instance) rather than harping on the choice of equipment and whether she knew what f/stop she used for a given photo.
I saw the diatribe about not being religious in your blogs and, frankly, if you’re a religious person I think it’s silly to hide it. Do you make it a marketing tool? I think that cheapens someone’s faith and causes me to discount it as a genuine factor in their life. But people are free to talk about zen and feng shui and their horoscope or whatever else – the guy making the criticism against blogging about your faith is probably one of the most open individuals about who he is and what he does out there, so it seems a bit hypocritical to take others to task if their persona happens to be deeply influenced by their religious beliefs.
Anyway, good post. We need to get together and listen to some jazz and solve the world’s problems sometime soon.
Don
Couldn’t agree more with the general sentiment, and I have a nagging feeling I know of another recent forum thread which may have sparked off your little rant. Needless to say I’m keeping a close eye on the snapper in question.
All the best,
Tom
All good point, obviously, and perhaps one more to add that I believe you have previously touched on in a slightly different context…
Regardless of whether you think this way or whether it should be this way, your brand is ALL of your online persona. You can, in your own mind, choose to think of your brand however you please, but the reality is that once you put something online, you have lost a significant (if not total) amount of control over how that information is perceived by the public and by your clients.
The only solution, really, is to exercise that control up front. Before I hit “send” or “enter” or “tweet” or whatever other thing the cool plugged-in kids are doing, am I ok with a potential client asking me about this? Would I be willing to say the same thing in a face-to-face meeting to the person to whom the mail/tweet/post was directed and to have my brand stand behind such mail/tweet/post?
Not at all a spiritual or religious guy so you won’t hear that kind of stuff from my mouth, but the simple fact of things is that life is, unfortunately, way too short to be spending time on things or people that aren’t my cup of tea. Move on and up and leave everyone to do their own thing and far be it from me to judge…
There are exceptions but it seems to me that the most successful people in any business are the ones going out of their way to credit and praise the people around them. It’s a habit I’m trying to get better at myself. Thanks for the reminder.
Don,
Totally agree with you and read the article that you mentioned. If I worry about what other photographers think of me and the way I do things, I will never succeed. I worry about the client and what they want and how I can better serve them. That’s what will make me more successful. Oh, I will definitely keep an eye on the competition, but from a quiet distance. I need that competition to keep me thinking outside the box and motivating me to be a better photographer. I’m with you that when one becomes threatened by another and belittles them to make themselves feel better, nobody wins. Keep up the good work!
Why’s it always “hate?” If someone disagrees with your ideas, or thinks your products or services are bad, it’s because they hate you personally? Isn’t that a bit extreme? And who cares if it helps their business or not? People writing reviews and offering criticism don’t have a profit in mind. They’re entitled to have and express opinions, and if you don’t like it you can ignore them. Others trying to decide if a product is worth their time and money benefit from the opinions of others. It’s how the free market works, and you don’t get to be immune because 12 people read your blog.
When you put your product out there, whether the product is your photography, a book a wrote, a workshop you gave (or a restaurant you own or a movie you produce) it’s going to be criticized. Not all movies are good (“Mama Mia” I’m looking right at you) and despite millions of dollars spent and millions of man hours, a poor job is done and a stinker produced. Reviewing the movie and saying “this movie is awful. Do not waste your money on this movie” is a useful service in the free market. It does not mean the reviewer personally despises the movie’s directors and actors (except for “Mama Mia.” Whoever greenlighted that shit has a special place in hell waiting for them).
There are so many workshops out there, and so many being taught by people who just started photography, don’t know what they’re doing with a camera, or how to teach, but they get popular on twitter or something and people show up to their workshop. People want to know which educators are good, and which are not. People say “if you went to somebody’s workshop and it was bad, let people know so we don’t waste our money!” And the instant somebody speaks up with legitimate criticism, the wagons circle, the fanboys and fangirls and the other pimps riding the workshop gravy train plug their ears and scream “oh, it’s all so much hate!”
Calling a bad workshop a bad workshop isn’t hate. Calling bad ideas bad isn’t hate. Calling a conman a conman isn’t hate. These are public services. If you disagree with these opinions, grow a thicker skin and reply with reasonable arguments. Or just ignore it. But crying “hate” every time somebody says they don’t like what you do? You know who else does that? Hysterical teenage girls. “You won’t let me go out with my friends saturday?! Why do you hate me?!?” “My teacher gave me a C-?! He hates me and wants me to fail and never get into college and RUIN MY LIFE!”
Grow up and deal with criticism like an adult.
“Grow up and deal with criticism like an adult.”
Thanks Taylor. It is indeed overkill to refer to it as hate. However, the blind attacks are indeed a terrible thing to do.
Notice I pulled exact people to quote, and the anonymous attacks get a bit tiring, you know.
But maybe I need a nap. heh.
However, I disagree with this:
“Reviewing the movie and saying “this movie is awful. Do not waste your money on this movie†is a useful service in the free market.”
That only means that the reviewer didn’t like it. Making a global statement that something is ‘Bad’ is way beyond arrogant. What does it say about the people who do actually like that movie? That they are stupid and incapable of liking something that is really good? That kind of global proclamations are indeed silly and stupid.
“It’s a Wonderful Life” was panned by the critics.
“Rites of Spring” by Stravinsky was panned by critics.
Bach was a little country organ player who never played for anyone who didn’t come to the church.
Beethooven died broke.
I guess those people who globally panned and ignored them where, what? Wrong? Stupid? Ignorant?
Why can’t someone simply say, “I didn’t get that much out of it because I was looking for X?”
TELLING me that it sucks tells me nothing more than that THEY don’t like it. Nothing more.
Ooops… missed my nap.
I agree with what Carlos said Don. This doesn’t happen just in photography it’s everywhere. I wish we could figure out a way to remove it from our society.
Great rant, Don, go listen to some more jazz to get the blood pressure down. (It does it for me anyway.)
Don,
Something tells me I know who this is. Of all of the things I read over any given length of time, your blog and his, are the ones I learn the most from. The comments left by the two of you (along with another jazz lover and a clergyman) were the ones that I looked forward to the most over at one of your old hangouts before things went to hell and you all left.
When I first read the post, I too had a problem with it because I thought that he would be the last person to do that to a fellow photographer. Let’s face it, he has no right to “hate” on the guys he named because he has done the same thing with books and workshops and a blog, albeit on a smaller scale. Based on his response to one of the reader’s comments, I think that what he said came across as being bitter when that was not his intention. I’ve been reading his blog for a while and even went back through the archives before I started to read the newer posts, and he doesn’t strike me as being a hypocrite.
Matt Buntyn
“…before things went to hell and you all left….”
LOL… well, that is certainly what happened. Didn’t do it out of spite or anger, just grew tired of the direction of it all. Hope all is well there too.
I couldn’t agree more with this and some of the comments. It seems to me that some people that hate on others are nothing more than jealous. Jealous that someone is doing better than they are. I know this is not always the case, but sometimes it is. Criticism can definitely be constructive. A former client telling a possible future client about their experience with you, be it good or bad, is useful too. But trying to tear people down in order to build yourself helps nobody!
I agree with just about everything you’ve said. I usually do. Sometimes bloggers go out on a limb. Sometimes they’re right and sometimes they need to be called on it and asked to clarify. As far as my blog goes I can see where people inferred that I was down on people doing seminar style workshops. I’ve sat through a lot of them for various reasons and I think I got most of it just right. I think there are great workshops to be had all over the place. I love the ones where people put their hands on gear and get one on one instruction in a specific thing and I love it when they are taught by humble masters.
I guess it’s really time to just get back to work and stop thinking of anything as a zero sum game or a win-lose proposition.
Sometimes I’m right and sometimes I’m wrong and when I’m wrong I don’t mind people calling me on it. It’s better to hear it from friends.
I confess. I’m a hater. I hate gearheads. I hate pretension. I kick kittens. I have a visceral reaction to some “work”. If it’s plain bad and pretending to be better than it is. If it’s just not very good.
I love Annie Liebowitz’s attitude and her early work. The recent stuff? The Lavazza ads? The Queen? Just. No.
Good, interesting, challenging work makes me warm on the inside.
I’ve got enough problems worrying about me. You can do your thing, and I’ll do mine. I was always suspect of the guy attacking someone else. Doesn’t he have anything better to do with his time.
All the hating just seems like bad karma to me!
I agree with a lot of what you said. First off though I believe it is human nature. I see it everywhere all the time. For instance gossip is a form of this and why I try not to do it. I also believe that photographers spend too much time on the internet talking to people they don’t know. Meaning that when someone criticizes my work, for all I know they could have no experience with photography and hide behind anonymity. So the value of what they say to me is not so important.
Get together with other photographers in their area and view each others work. People choose their words much more carefully and are more considerate when the person is there. Sometimes when I talk to people I love (like my Fiance) and show them my work they say they don’t like it. I respond with OK why? Sometimes they can’t answer. Because she doesn’t have the vocabulary as a visual artist to explain. Then I show it to another photographer and he says I don’t like it because the perspective is off, out of focus or something along the lines of that. The critique from the photographer is much more helpful.
I graduated with an art degree and I can still remember one of my first teachers ripping my work off the wall and saying if I ever show up with work like that again he will immediately fail me. I tell that people the story and they are horrified and ask how I reacted. Well you know what, he was right. I spent two hours the night before and had the balls to hang it next to people who had spent 2 weeks on theirs. It pissed me off and made me work harder.
The idea of constructive critiques is something I learned in school and I rarely see it on the internet. I strongly suggest that if you want to grow seek out other near your home photographers and meet on a regular basis. I live in NYC and it is quite easy, but I know in some parts of the country that may be difficult. This is why workshops can also help. You get more than “It Sucks”.
Sorry for the long winded comment.
Eye opening rant, thanks. I think the internet has given people the faceless voice where they can be as viscious as they want (or not). Where do we get it from? Flip on your TV and watch any “News” program for 5 minutes. Senseless, baseless attacks based on nothing more than opinion are the norm right now. Don’t bother with facts just shoot from the hip and get the headline right.
Creative critiscm is valuable, negativity is not. Make sure you listen and provide the correct feedback. I need to work on this everyday, as an artist we have the opinion that our way is the right way. But remember we all think that way.
Don,
I have been following your blog for a bit now, and I want to thank you for this post! It reminds me of what Dane Sanders says about having “the grumpies”. We got out of an era where no one wanted to share information, and I think that is just manifesting in different ways now.
I tend to hate on people who like certain kinds of music, and this post really was humbling for me. I read the blog you linked to, and really felt what you are saying, why is there a need to tear people down. If people’s work really does suck, than they are the ones who will have to deal with it when their clients realize they bought into a fad, shouldn’t we spend our time helping the passionate find their way?
thanks so much for writing, you keep me inspired to do this crazy thing of being a photographer.
This was very interesting to me, as I am very new to the game. I mean, so new that I don’t even have a website up and running yet and I’m still trying to figure out what to charge people.
This article has solidified in my mind the need to just be who I am, not worrying about what another photographer is doing or thinks of my work. I will focus on what the client needs and deliver to the best of my ability.
As I often say to my five children: Why don’t you just worry about you?
Such wise words. I have been around the negative people, and at some points early in my career, I was probably pretty guilty of that crap too… but there is a time when you realize it is all for nothing.
My momma used to tell me “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.” People respond to that really well. And while we all have deeply held feelings, letting the negativity go can sometimes really help us focus on what is important.
Excellent post! It has a bit for most people to take home…
It’s hard to endorse being a hater. And yet, as Edmund Burke said, “There is a limit at a which forbearance ceases to be a virtue.” How do you know where to draw the line?
One frustrating thing about the photo-blogosphere, where there’s so much product so readily available: Almost everybody’s work can be arranged along a “merit” axis, and almost everybody’s degree of celebrity can be arranged along a “recognition” axis. The problem is that, as a scientist might say, the two axes are weakly coupled. There’s a small sector of people who are deservedly famous for the quality of their work, and zone occupied by those of us who are deservedly obscure for the lack of same. In between, though, lies a huge but very fuzzy set of people whose work is better than their reputation, or vice-versa, and where to locate those individual data points is unavoidably very, very contentious.
I won’t necessarily diss a commentator for calling out someone as overrated; it’s good to remind people that a wide range of opinion is allowable. (Another quote, this one from seminal ballet critic Edwin Denby: “It is not the job of the critic to be right, but to be interesting.”)
I will say, though, that if you call out people for being overrated, I expect you also occasionally to draw attention to some whom you consider underrated; otherwise, I’m going to suspect your motives.
As much as I agree with your point here, I do think that JJB wasn’t being the “idiot” you described him to be by knocking the defendant down a few pegs. Her work and her business ethics were unprofessional and seeing how that’s hard to quantify in terms of substance he went the equipment route. He even asked her how fast her lens was and she gave him the zoom specs! I mean…c’mon!
In that case, its not about one-upping somebody but testing their legitimacy. The same way you’d ask medical questions from a doctor or recipe hints from a chef. The difference is that those two professions are licensed, while the photography field is a more wild-west Darwinian world. If you can’t answer a few basic questions about this then you’re strictly BSing. JJB was good to weed her out, NOT to knock down, but to expose her as a fraud!
But the rest of your blog I wholeheartedly agree! 🙂
It is funny. Some of the first people to “like” this article, are the first ones, who go on Twitter, FB, or
Flicr,and say things like: ” saw some hideous pictures this weekend, when will this crap end?”, or “when will photographers just post pictures for themselves, and not for other photographers?”, and then all fall over each other, posting pictures of themselves, or their work, and then ignoring everyone else. They endlessly discuss ISO settings or is Canon better than Nikon. Blah Blah.
It is the ME generation. It is the http/frog/llp, see what I just did about 42 seconds ago generation. It is the post “I love your work”, and then completely ignore that person, or bash them behind their backs two seconds later generation, because you know they can’t do anything for you generation.
ALL photographers have a degree of egoism. They want their work to be admired. Why not admit it? If I take a picture, I do not want someone to look at it (and least of all my client), to say “Good Christ, that is hideous!”. But then, you have this elitist crowd claiming they are just in it for the art, for the purism.
That is such crap. They write blogs, interviews, stating to hate anyone who loves their work, or who is doing a “vintage” picture, or has done something that has been done before. “Break new ground” they scream! Would Ansel Adams have wasted his time? I think not. He would have just taken pictures.
Hate? It is a waste of time. I see people on their Tweets, FB pages belittling someone, (and they might not even know who they are hurting), and I think: “Go take a picture and shut the h*ll up”. Or better yet, go on someone’s page who you have NEVER gone on before and leave a kind comment.
It is a better waste of space.
Peace…